Comments on: The Amazon-Booksurge Flap http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/ Discussion, issues and answers for the independent publishing community, hosted by Marion Gropen Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:29:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Dr. Linne http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/comment-page-1/#comment-8185 Dr. Linne Sat, 13 Sep 2008 03:45:16 +0000 http://gropenassoc.com/blog/?p=46#comment-8185 As a deeply spiritual MBA and Ph.D., expert in leadership power, this is clearly a move backward for Amazon. They do not get that this kind of My way or the highway total Old Power grab will backfire. No longer accepted. If they want to insist on Book Surge use for the books they do the fulfillment for, I understand the vertical integration advantage. But to force those of us who do our own fulfilllment or outsource it to use Book Surge is insane. They have not notified us about this by email, and are still charging us $40/month to list my books and audiobooks but have removed our Buy button, so we cannot sell anything. Our market is corporate, they buy on Amazon. A business disaster. They have handled this very unethically. I will fax their legal dept. If anyone has a solution, Please Post It! Thanks for giving us a place to tell what is really going on. Dr. Linne As a deeply spiritual MBA and Ph.D., expert in leadership power, this is clearly a move backward for Amazon. They do not get that this kind of My way or the highway total Old Power grab will backfire. No longer accepted.

If they want to insist on Book Surge use for the books they do the fulfillment for, I understand the vertical integration advantage.

But to force those of us who do our own fulfilllment or outsource it to use Book Surge is insane. They have not notified us about this by email, and are still charging us $40/month to list my books and audiobooks but have removed our Buy button, so we cannot sell anything. Our market is corporate, they buy on Amazon. A business disaster.
They have handled this very unethically. I will fax their legal dept.
If anyone has a solution, Please Post It!
Thanks for giving us a place to tell what is really going on.
Dr. Linne

]]> By: Bill Benners http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/comment-page-1/#comment-7368 Bill Benners Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:42:23 +0000 http://gropenassoc.com/blog/?p=46#comment-7368 Thanks! That helps clear up alot for me. Thanks! That helps clear up alot for me.

]]> By: PublishingGuide http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/comment-page-1/#comment-4010 PublishingGuide Mon, 05 May 2008 16:15:59 +0000 http://gropenassoc.com/blog/?p=46#comment-4010 That's true, as far as it goes. But the catch is in the discounts. Given that POD printing is so very much more expensive than offset, many POD-original titles have been short discount. For that matter, many of them have been so niche that they'd be short discount regardless. They're just not trade books. Amazon is no longer accepting short discounts, but requires that small presses go through the Amazon Advantage program (55% off list) or through BookSurge or CreateSpace (40% or more). This means that many titles will simply no longer be published. Amazon was a very large chunk of the market for these specialized books, and the profit margins are no longer acceptable. And then, of course, there are the vanity press titles, which Amazon is going after first. Those, too, are being adversely affected. I'm not going to be crying any rivers over the pain that some of the sleaziest are feeling, but I do feel sorry for those would-be authors who think they've found the golden shortcut and instead lose their best chance to really publish a manuscript (assuming that it's any good) and lose a fair bit of money on top of that. That’s true, as far as it goes. But the catch is in the discounts. Given that POD printing is so very much more expensive than offset, many POD-original titles have been short discount. For that matter, many of them have been so niche that they’d be short discount regardless. They’re just not trade books.

Amazon is no longer accepting short discounts, but requires that small presses go through the Amazon Advantage program (55% off list) or through BookSurge or CreateSpace (40% or more). This means that many titles will simply no longer be published. Amazon was a very large chunk of the market for these specialized books, and the profit margins are no longer acceptable.

And then, of course, there are the vanity press titles, which Amazon is going after first. Those, too, are being adversely affected. I’m not going to be crying any rivers over the pain that some of the sleaziest are feeling, but I do feel sorry for those would-be authors who think they’ve found the golden shortcut and instead lose their best chance to really publish a manuscript (assuming that it’s any good) and lose a fair bit of money on top of that.

]]> By: Bill Benners http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/comment-page-1/#comment-4006 Bill Benners Mon, 05 May 2008 15:30:24 +0000 http://gropenassoc.com/blog/?p=46#comment-4006 I read the release Amazon presented us and got a different take on the issue. I may have misread it, or misunderstood it, but what I thought I read was this: Amazon stated that in the future, they would REQUIRE authors of POD books to EITHER let them print the book when it is ordered, OR send them copies of the book ahead of time printed on the POD press of their choice so that they can have some in inventory at the time it is ordered. We are not a POD publisher and have little interest in this matter, but I would like to know if I am right or wrong on this. I read the release Amazon presented us and got a different take on the issue. I may have misread it, or misunderstood it, but what I thought I read was this: Amazon stated that in the future, they would REQUIRE authors of POD books to EITHER let them print the book when it is ordered, OR send them copies of the book ahead of time printed on the POD press of their choice so that they can have some in inventory at the time it is ordered. We are not a POD publisher and have little interest in this matter, but I would like to know if I am right or wrong on this.

]]> By: PublishingGuide http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/comment-page-1/#comment-2883 PublishingGuide Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:32:32 +0000 http://gropenassoc.com/blog/?p=46#comment-2883 I know that the associations are thinking things through. And that's a good thing, I think. I'm going to add another entry on this subject as soon as <b>I</b> get my thoughts in order. I will say this, though: at least these times aren't boring. Should be very interesting indeed, seeing how many publishers we can save from the dustbin of history as their margins are forced lower once again. I know that the associations are thinking things through. And that’s a good thing, I think.

I’m going to add another entry on this subject as soon as I get my thoughts in order.

I will say this, though: at least these times aren’t boring. Should be very interesting indeed, seeing how many publishers we can save from the dustbin of history as their margins are forced lower once again.

]]> By: Walt Shiel http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/comment-page-1/#comment-2806 Walt Shiel Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:51:57 +0000 http://gropenassoc.com/blog/?p=46#comment-2806 How many people who've commented here and elsewhere have contacted the small pub associations -- SPAN, PMA, SPAWN et al -- to see if they are developing plans to confront this issue? I did send an email to SPAN but have heard nothing back as yet (we are no longer PMA members, so I haven't tried there). I am amazed at the collective silence from those organizations, whose stated purposes all include some variety of "supporting independent publishers," who more and more use digital printers (and, specifically, LSI) to gain the inherent advantages. Unless those organizations band together as a single force to sit down and discuss the whys and wherefores with Amazon, I doubt much of anything will happen...at least not much to the benefit of the indies. Walt Shiel SlipdownMountain.com FiveRainbows.com How many people who’ve commented here and elsewhere have contacted the small pub associations — SPAN, PMA, SPAWN et al — to see if they are developing plans to confront this issue? I did send an email to SPAN but have heard nothing back as yet (we are no longer PMA members, so I haven’t tried there).

I am amazed at the collective silence from those organizations, whose stated purposes all include some variety of “supporting independent publishers,” who more and more use digital printers (and, specifically, LSI) to gain the inherent advantages.

Unless those organizations band together as a single force to sit down and discuss the whys and wherefores with Amazon, I doubt much of anything will happen…at least not much to the benefit of the indies.

Walt Shiel
SlipdownMountain.com
FiveRainbows.com

]]> By: Dave Marx http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/comment-page-1/#comment-2792 Dave Marx Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:24:43 +0000 http://gropenassoc.com/blog/?p=46#comment-2792 Today's Publisher's Lunch lifted a quote from an Amazon spokesperson in a ComputerWorld article. The reasons given by the spokesperson are similar to those I speculated upon - Amazon being able to fulfill the POD order at an Amazon DC, so that the POD book can be included in an order of other books and goods as part of the free shipping offer (of course, they could have offered LSI an opportunity to install its own equipment at Amazon DCs). Naturally, the free shipping offer is an incentive to bulk-up Amazon purchases, which is quite nice for Amazon's bottom line. Further, the spokesperson noted that books could still be sold through "third-party marketplace seller programs." This is consistent with the idea that Ingram/LSI could be one of those marketplace sellers. Of course, some of this is predictable spin. There certainly were no admissions that this would be more profitable for Amazon, but that's to be expected. It also seems likely that Amazon is aiming at "Aiming At Amazon." Nothing like changing policies to invalidate an entire book. Aaron Shepard is even handcuffed at the moment on issuing a revision, since the dust hasn't settled. As someone whose own titles are regularly affected by the acts of a mega-corporation (Disney), with some of those changes intended to undo advice that is circulating in guidebooks and elsewhere, I know what that's like. Today’s Publisher’s Lunch lifted a quote from an Amazon spokesperson in a ComputerWorld article. The reasons given by the spokesperson are similar to those I speculated upon – Amazon being able to fulfill the POD order at an Amazon DC, so that the POD book can be included in an order of other books and goods as part of the free shipping offer (of course, they could have offered LSI an opportunity to install its own equipment at Amazon DCs). Naturally, the free shipping offer is an incentive to bulk-up Amazon purchases, which is quite nice for Amazon’s bottom line. Further, the spokesperson noted that books could still be sold through “third-party marketplace seller programs.” This is consistent with the idea that Ingram/LSI could be one of those marketplace sellers. Of course, some of this is predictable spin. There certainly were no admissions that this would be more profitable for Amazon, but that’s to be expected.

It also seems likely that Amazon is aiming at “Aiming At Amazon.” Nothing like changing policies to invalidate an entire book. Aaron Shepard is even handcuffed at the moment on issuing a revision, since the dust hasn’t settled. As someone whose own titles are regularly affected by the acts of a mega-corporation (Disney), with some of those changes intended to undo advice that is circulating in guidebooks and elsewhere, I know what that’s like.

]]> By: Yvonne DiVita http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/comment-page-1/#comment-2791 Yvonne DiVita Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:40:11 +0000 http://gropenassoc.com/blog/?p=46#comment-2791 I've been following this story across the net and will write on it for Beneath the Cover, a publishing blog I contribute to. I also received a link to a petition that I was happy to sign. You may find it here. I hope you will all sign it: "Stop the BookSurge Monopoly" http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/protectPOD?e I’ve been following this story across the net and will write on it for Beneath the Cover, a publishing blog I contribute to. I also received a link to a petition that I was happy to sign. You may find it here. I hope you will all sign it: “Stop the BookSurge Monopoly”
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/protectPOD?e

]]> By: Small Pub http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/comment-page-1/#comment-2751 Small Pub Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:51:43 +0000 http://gropenassoc.com/blog/?p=46#comment-2751 We could all sit here and speculate on why why why...but it seems to me the energy would be better spent in all the affected publishers getting together and hiring a lawyer or ten. For starters, the word monopoly comes to mind... We could all sit here and speculate on why why why…but it seems to me the energy would be better spent in all the affected publishers getting together and hiring a lawyer or ten. For starters, the word monopoly comes to mind…

]]> By: John Landahl http://gropenassoc.com/blog/2008/03/the-amazon-booksurge-flap/comment-page-1/#comment-2729 John Landahl Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:35:52 +0000 http://gropenassoc.com/blog/?p=46#comment-2729 If there's a basis for legal action here, it might be one involving antitrust and extortion. To announce a blanket policy change, as Barnes and Noble did when it dropped ebooks several years ago, is basically a business decision. To contact publishers one by one and say, "If you don't change your POD printer, we'll hurt your business" is a little different. That would be especially true if publishers had to pay a setup fee or annual service fee to BookSurge, but I don't know whether that's the case. If there’s a basis for legal action here, it might be one involving antitrust and extortion. To announce a blanket policy change, as Barnes and Noble did when it dropped ebooks several years ago, is basically a business decision. To contact publishers one by one and say, “If you don’t change your POD printer, we’ll hurt your business” is a little different. That would be especially true if publishers had to pay a setup fee or annual service fee to BookSurge, but I don’t know whether that’s the case.

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